Ask Arok: 1792 and Very Old Barton

Last week, Dan left a comment on the post I did comparing 1792 Port Finish to a 1792 single barrel. 

What is the difference between 1792 and Very Old barton other than packaging? Thanks! 

Initially thought he was asking about flavor. Because I find them to be quite different, I was happy to share that I found 1792 to be hotter, drier and showing more wood influence than VOB. It turns out that his question was much more interesting than that, cutting to the heart of the difference between the juice that goes into the bottle for two brands. Since both of these bourbons are produced at the Barton 1792 Distillery in Bardstown, KY one might assume that they are just the same bourbon put into different bottles.

At one point, this would have been an easy question to answer. Age. Both of these had age statements until just a few years ago. Very Old Barton was 6 years old and 1792 was 8. I assumed that this, along with barrel selection was probably still the case. But the bourbon industry has changed in the mean time. There is much less info on the label than there used to be for these two brands so I couldn't say for sure. To find out, I reached out to a contact I have at Sazerac to see if she would like to chime in. Here is what she had to say.

Age constitutes most of the difference in taste between Very Old Barton and 1792, as 1792 barrels are typically aged 3-4 years longer than Very Old Barton. We also taste, evaluate and approve all the barrels prior to use in any batch to ensure a consistent taste profile for every brand. So in other words, to ensure Very Old Barton always tastes like Very Old Barton and 1792 always tastes like 1792. 

So I was correct in my assumption that it is still age and barrel selection. But I was a bit surprised at one thing. Apparently in the last few years Very Old Barton has gotten younger at a faster pace than 1792 has. They used to be 2 years apart in age. Now they are 3-4 years different. Assuming that they wouldn't remove the 8 year age statement while making the bourbon older, we are left to deduce that Very Old Barton is now only 4-5 years old while 1792 is around 7-8. 

Toss in choosing barrels to fit the flavor profile and you get yourself a different brand that starts the same, but are pretty different when compared to one another. 

Do you have a bourbon question you'd like answered? Just get in contact with me using one of the icons in the sidebar to submit one. If I don’t know the answer, I’ll try to find it from someone who does.

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1792 Port Finish as Compared to a 1792 Single Barrel pick

So last night I was chatting with my friend Fred Minnick on twitter. He'd posted a shot of the bottle he'd got of Booker's Rye and I made my thoughts on the price known. He countered from a reviewers stand point and I replied with:

Yes, I was joking. I was mostly feeling salty about the fact I will never taste Booker's Rye due to both my self-imposed restriction on accepting review samples and the fact that the price is about three months worth of my (mostly poorly-followed) whiskey budget. 

I have to clarify that I was joking because I review things that few people will ever taste all the time: dusties, local retailer picks, special editions I make special trips to obtain, etc. I'd hate to be viewed as a hypocrite because someone only saw the one tweet as it was retweeted. I mean, my last post was a product that though easy enough to find right now, is out of the budget of the majority of my readers.

So to celebrate my newfound hypocrite-ness I'm going to review not one, but two things that are either limited editions or retailer picks that have been long sold out. I found the Port Finish 1792 at a local municipal liquor store and as I did my review tasting I thought to see how it compares to the regular release. I didn't have that, but I did have a bottle of a store pick single barrel. It shares at least a passing resemblance to the regular release so it would have to do.

1792 Single Barrel Pick - Ace Spirits

Purchase info: $19.98 for a 750 mL bottle at Ace Spirits, Hopkins, MN

Details: 46.85 ABV. Exclusive barrel for Ace Spirits. Barrel no. 11.

Nose: Dry and oaky with hints of chocolate and sweet fruit.

Mouth: Warm and woody with notes of ginger, nutmeg and dark chocolate.

Finish: Warm and drying with medium length. Lingering dark chocolate and spice notes. 

A smile becauseI like this. 

Thoughts: This is a bourbon I reach for when I don't want a "sweet" bourbon. It's spicy and warm and has a lovely dry "evaporating" sensation to the finish. This single barrel is tasty, but doesn't stray too far outside the 1792 wheel house. 

1792 Port Finish

Purchase info: $38.99 for a 750 mL bottle at Apple Valley Liquor, Apple Valley, MN

Details: 44.45% ABV. After normal aging, this whiskey spends an additional two years in barrels that previously aged port.

Nose: Rich and creamy with a nice port influence of fruit and honey along with oak and hints of chocolate.

Mouth: Warm and sweet with noted of ginger, sweet fruit, oak and hints of rich dark chocolate. 

Finish: Warm and sweet with lingering fruit and spices. 

A smile because I like this.

Thoughts: The combination of spice, fruit, oak and chocolate meld into a delicious whole. If you can find this and like fruity bourbons, this is one to pick up. It's quite different from regular 1792, but quite taste nonetheless. 

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Bottom-Shelf Bourbon Brackets 2016: Championship Rounds

Here we are: the Championship rounds! We’ve made it through the opening rounds and tonight we find out which of our Bottom Shelf Challengers will graduate to the Fancy Shelf. 

Once again, I am struck by just how good the competition has been. Most years we’ve had a clunker or two that made it in. This year, I liked every bottle that made it into the competition. I blame this on the fact that we were just able to find better bourbons in the price range this year. 

In fact, I’d say that the story of the year was certainly the “Total Wine effect.” Total Wine sells their national brands at as close to cost as they can get away with while marking up their store brands with a higher margin. This has had the effect of driving up the selection and driving down the price at many of their local competitors. Prices have been driven down to the point where many of the bourbons I included this year, wouldn’t have qualified last year. 

Normally I have to scramble to find eight items to include. This year, I didn’t have that problem. The increase in local competition has made it such that I actually had plenty of choices and was able to be a little choosier about what I included (leading to that lack of clunkers mentioned above). By way of example, three of the four of the finalists either used to be sold at a higher price or weren’t in the market at all before Total Wine came in. 

Yep. The Total Wine Effect is in full swing. And right now spirits consumers are winning in the Minneapolis/St. Paul market. To this point, unlike the many dire predictions from before Total Wine showed up, there have been few liquor store closings that I have noticed. If anything I find more reasons to spend money at more liquor stores than I did before. I now shop at seven-eight regularly instead of the three-four I visited in years past.

So here we go. The Championship Rounds. These were tasted blind again. And remember as with previous years, these were not formal tasting notes, just impressions to let us decide which one we liked better.

Round 2: Down to Four

Division 1: #4 seed Buckhorn vs #2 seed Evan Williams 1783

Thoughts: Bourbon A has a slightly richer nose and gets the nod there. A is sweeter on the mouth while B is more grain forward by comparison. Toss in a relatively and enjoyable finish on both and seems that A is fitting our palates better.  

Winner: So which is which? Very much to our surprise, Bourbon B was Evan Williams 1783 while Total Wine house brand Buckhorn was Bourbon A. Buckhorn moves on. 

Division 2: #1 seed JW Dant Bottled in Bond vs #2 seed Very Old Barton (86 proof)

Thoughts: Both of these have nice sweet noses. If forced to choose a favorite, I’d say A for being slightly sweeter. In the mouth A is slightly more grain forward while B has slightly more depth to it. These are both tasty and are well matched to on another. In the end Bourbon B gets the nod by a hair.  

Winner: So which is which? Once again to our surprise Bourbon A was previous winner JW Dant Bottled in Bond and Bourbon B was lower proof VOB 86 proof. Very Old Barton 86 proof moves on. 

Fancy Shelf Championship

Buckhorn vs Very Old Barton 86 proof

This is the first time we haven’t had at least one Heaven Hill product in the Championship round. Instead we have a couple Sazerac products competing. Buckhorn is the Total Wine Exclusive made by Sazerac under the Clear Spring Distillery name and Very Old Barton is made at Sazerac’s Barton 1792 distillery. In a break from every other year, both of these beat out higher proof competition to make it to this point. Which is a testament to the quality of the bourbon that Sazerac/Barton/Buffalo Trace is putting out even at lower proofs.

Thoughts: The nose on Bourbon A is fruitier and a little sweeter while Bourbon B brings a little more cinnamon red hots to the party. The mouth follows the nose with A being fruitier and B being spicier with a little more oak presence. This is close but in the end I gotta give it to Bourbon B, but just barely.

Winner: So which was which? Bourbon A was Buckhorn and our winner Bourbon B was Very Old Barton 86 proof. 

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Bottom-Shelf Bourbon Brackets 2016, Round 1: Very Old Barton 86 vs. Jim Beam White

Round 1d of the 2016 Bottom Shelf Bourbon Brackets features Number 2 seed Very Old Barton 86 proof versus Number 3 seed Jim Beam White. 

Very Old Barton is a product of the Sazerac company produced out of the Barton 1792 Distillery in Bardstown, KY. Depending on where you live, Very Old Barton is sold in one of four proof levels: 80, 86, 90 and 100. I've had all four and have enjoyed them all. I ran across the 86 proof at a really good price this year as the "Total Wine effect" brought it into the realm of this competition.

Jim Beam white label is one of the most popular bourbons in existence. It's in almost every bar on the planet. Of course this does not mean it is actually good. I've run into very few people that count Jim Beam white as their favorite bourbon. Jim Beam produces some very good bourbon, but this expression normally gets buried in coke or slammed as a cheap shot.

These were tasted blind in the following order. My thoughts on each are from before the reveal.

Jim Beam White Label 

Purchase Info: $12.99 for a 750 mL bottle at Total Wine, Burnsville, MN

Details: 40% ABV, No age statement

Produced by: Jim Beam

Nose: Light on the nose, delicate. Dusty wood, mint leaves and corn bread.

Mouth: Thin and a bit watery. Vanilla, bitter oak and cooked cereal.

Finish: This has a burn that comes back up for a visit but otherwise doesn't have much of a finish to speak of. There are fleeting bitter oak tannins but they fade quickly.

Thoughts: “Thin, watery and a tad bitter. Not really a fan.”

Very Old Barton 86 proof

Purchase Info: $14.99 for a 1L bottle at Ace Spirits, Hopkins, MN.

Details: 43% ABV, No Age Statement

Produced by: Sazerac/Barton 1792 Distillery

Nose: Sweet with a hint of fruit. Mint caramel and bubble gum.

Mouth: Sweet and warm. Vanilla, caramel, some oak and grain flavors.

Finish: Warm and of medium length. Lingering spices and cinnamon red hots.

Thoughts: “Sweet and tasty. though nothing to write home about. This would be nice while playing cards.”

Who wins?

After the reveal it was no surprise that Very Old Barton won this one handily. It not only had more flavor, but they are flavors that I actually like. I'm on record as not being a fan of the flavors that show up in low-proof Beam products. And it held true in this case. Very Old Barton won almost by default. I'm curious to see how it does against real competition.

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Bottom-Shelf Bourbon Brackets 2016, Round 1: Fighting Cock vs. Buckhorn

Round 1a of the 2016 Bottom Shelf Bourbon Brackets features Number 1 seed, and last year’s winner Fighting Cock versus Number 4 seed Buckhorn. 

Fighting Cock is a product of Heaven Hill Brands. It was initially chosen as a part of last year’s competition where it eked out a narrow victory over Heaven Hill’s Evan Williams Bottled in Bond. Of course when it competed last year, it had an age statement of 6 years old. This year, when it comes back to defend it’s crown against new competition, it is sporting no age statement. Can it become a two time winner even with that handicap?

Buckhorn is a Total Wine exclusive.* It is sold to them by the Clear Spring Distilling company, an assumed name that Sazerac uses to make house brands. It is 80 proof and carries no age statement so it is at least 4 years of age. I was leery about including it in the competition since you’ll need to be near a Total Wine to get one, but I’m going assume that if you substitute another NAS house brand made by Sazerac under the Clear Spring name, you might get fairly similar results.

These were tasted blind in the following order. My thoughts on each are from before the reveal.

Fighting Cock

Purchase Info: $14.99 for a 750 mL bottle at Total Wine, Burnsville, MN

Details: 51.5% ABV, No age statement

Produced by: Heaven Hill Brands

Nose: Bubble gum, mint, cooked cereal

Mouth: Hot and grainy. Hints of caramel and a touch of oak underneath.

Finish: Hot and grainy with a lingering dried corn bitterness

Pre-Reveal Thoughts: “If this is the fighting Cock, it took a huge dip when it went NAS last year.”

Buckhorn

Purchase Info: $12.99 for a 750 mL bottle at Ace Spirits, Hopkins, MN*

Details: 40% ABV, No Age Statement

Produced by: Clear Spring Distilling Company (Sazerac)

Nose: Herbal. Brown sugar, mint and oak.

Mouth: it basically follows the nose. Herbal, brown sugar, mint and delicate oak notes.

Finish: Middling finish with a bit of heat but not much length. Lingering herbal notes.

Pre-Reveal Thoughts: “Nothing offensive on this one, I’d take a glass if offered.”

Who wins?

The finish on Fighting Cock is better heat wise but falls way short on flavor. I’m not a fan of really grain forward finishes. In the mouth it’s the same. Fighting Cock is hot but Buckhorn is more flavorful in the ways I like my whiskey. If Buckhorn had some of Fighting Cock’s heat, this contest would be a no brainer. As it is, I’m leaning Buckhorn but could understand why others with different tastes would go the other way. But I’m the judge so it looks like we’ve just had the first upset in the history of the Bottom-Shelf Bourbon Brackets because 4 seed Buckhorn just knocked off last year’s champ. 

Well a non-age stated version of last year's champ. Apparently after removing the age from the product, Heaven Hill was hoping that the high proof would cover the degradation of the aged flavors. They were wrong. Last year I advised not to add water to it as it minimized the oak and the heat and left you with just grain flavors. Now you can get that without adding water. It's too bad. This used to be a hidden gem as little as a year ago. 

*Not so exclusive. By a quirk of Minnesota law, liquor stores are prohibited from carrying exclusive products. This means many local stores buy the exclusives and then undercut Total Wine’s price. Which is nice since these products tend to have the highest markup at Total Wine. Everyone wins…well except the massive megaretailer. As an example, I bought this one at Ace Spirits.

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Bottom-Shelf Bourbon Brackets 2016: The Brackets

Its that time of year again. The time of year when in the spirit of the season, America pretends to enjoy college basketball. The time when intraoffice gambling on the backs of unpaid athletes is not only condoned, but practically expected. The time when paper or online brackets are filled, mostly with guesses because what normal person really knows what the hell a Gonzaga is anyway. 

I’m not immune to the lure. But instead of trying to figure out whether a Holy Cross can beat a Southern University, I’d rather spend my time figuring out if I like Evan Williams 1783 or Wild Turkey 81 proof better. Because honestly I really don’t like basketball. Plus I work out of my home so I have no coworkers with whom to pretend that I care whether an FGCU wins or not.

Because I am a frugal person, this annual competition started out as a way to find new inexpensive bourbons with which to drown my sorrows as I waited for winter to end. But with both winters and inexpensive bourbons that I haven’t tried are becoming increasingly rare, I actually was worried that I wasn’t going to be able to find enough bourbons to qualify this year. 

But there is good news frugal fans of bourbon! Minnesota is smack dab in the middle of the Total Wine effect. Items that didn’t qualify in years past are now priced within reach due to the increased price competition and items that were intended to be store exclusives are now being stocked on store shelves across the Metro. Prices are dropping and selection is rising. And this makes this year’s brackets a little more interesting than normal.

As it has been a year since we did this last, let’s go over the guidelines for selection: 

  1. I'm defining Bottom-Shelf as under $20 per liter or $15 per 750 mL bottle.

  2. It must be Straight Bourbon

  3. It must be available in Minnesota

  4. I am hoping to try new things so when possible, I looked for things I hadn’t reviewed before.

After the bottles were purchased here are the guidelines I used to seed them. 

  1. Previous Winners. JW Dant Bottled in Bond won two years ago and Fighting Cock won last year year so they get an automatic #1 seed.

  2. Stated (or assumed age). Straight bourbon has to be at least two years old. But unless it is under four years old you don’t have to put an age on it. So if someone does it’s either a good thing or a bad thing. I like to reward good things and punish bad things.

  3. Proof. Higher proof often equals better flavor. Not always, but it can be a good rule of thumb.

  4. Minimize corporate cousins. I figured I could introduce a little more difference into each initial pairing if they didn’t come off the same still, or at the very least wasn’t sold by the same company. Since four of these are from Heaven Hill and two are originally from Sazerac, it's a guideline, not a hard rule, and is overridden by the above guidelines.

So who are the contestants? Well, as mentioned above, Fighting Cock and JW Dant are our return winners so they get the number one seeds in each division. There were no age stated bottles this year so that one has been set aside, though I did knock Very Old Barton down a notch for their misleading “6.” So the next two highest proof bottles are Evan Williams 1783 and Very Old Barton 6 are both 86 proof and they become the number 2 seeds. After that the newly renamed Wild Turkey bourbon is 81 proof so it becomes our first 3 seed. The last three were dropped in what I thought might be an order to provide the most interesting match ups with Jim Beam White becoming the last 3 three seed going against Barton while Buckhorn (a Total Wine “exclusive” from Buffalo Trace) and Heaven Hill’s Blue State picking up the slack as 4 seeds.

Due to the Total Wine effect, this was an interesting year. Stay tuned.

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The Worst American Whiskies I've Had

I’ve said it before. I don’t review a lot of bourbon that I don’t like. You might think I am too Minnesotan and don't want to say anything mean or that maybe I don’t have a discerning palate. You might think that I’ve been bought off or that I’m hoping to get free whiskey. You might think a lot of things, but unless you are a long time reader, you’d probably be wrong.

You see, there is a very simple explanation for why I don’t review a lot of bourbons I dislike. I buy almost all of the whiskey I review and I really don’t want to spend money on things I’ll dislike. I’m experienced enough at buying American Whiskey that I kind of know what I like and what I don’t. Of course, that doesn’t mean I haven’t had a stinker or two slip through. And just because I didn’t buy it doesn’t mean that I haven’t tried it. 

So in the name of helping you to avoid the stinkers, and because I do get asked this on occasion, tonight I’m presenting you with my list of the 5 worst American Whiskies I’ve had. To qualify, I had to have had it and I have to have wished I hadn’t.

My 5 Worst American Whiskies

(as decided by me and in alphabetical order.)

Hayes Parker Reserve: Terre Pure bourbon aged at least six months. I made the mistake of picking up two minis of this. I think my wife’s comments sum it up perfectly: “You can’t make me put more in my mouth.” 

Masterson’s Straight Wheat and Straight Barley Whiskey: These are technically a set of Canadian whiskies, but since they are sold by a US company I’m going to include them here. When these were released, I made a comment about buying them and these are so bad that I had someone in another country volunteer to send me a sample of each so that I didn’t waste my money on them. To this day, I consider that lady to be a very good friend. I tried my samples in nosing glasses in a nice hotel room while feeling very relaxed. A good set up for being forgiving to a whiskey. It didn’t help. I struggled through half a sample of each before dumping them out and finding something tastier to get the flavor out of my mouth.

Rebel Yell: I bought this bourbon as part of the Bottom Shelf Bourbon Brackets the first year I did them. It lost in the first round to Old Crow Reserve. At the time, I said I didn’t know what I would do with the bottle because I wasn’t going to drink it. I’ve tried blending it, I tried cooking with it. Nothing worked. Eventually I did find a use for it. It became “Prop Bourbon.” When I need to take a photo for a review, but already finished the bottle, I pour my prop bourbon into the empty bottle for the photo. Afterward I dump it back into the Rebel Yell bottle and stick it back in the closet. 

Town Branch Bourbon: I have never purchased this bourbon, but I’ve given this a shot on numerous occasions. I keep thinking that it must just be me. But no matter how many times I come back to it, I just don’t like it. It’s a very pretty bottle, but what’s inside I find repugnant.  

Woodford Reserve Master’s Collection Double Malt Selection: This release was two different Malt Whiskies that needed to be purchased separately. I had them at a friend’s house in Louisville. We were both extremely excited to try them and well…he dumped his out. I tried to be polite and finish mine, but was convinced to do the same. This might be the worst thing Woodford has ever released under their name.

Dis-Honorable Mentions

These were also very bad whiskies, but for one reason or another I decided to drop them out of the main category. Either they weren’t quite as bad as the ones above or they are no longer available or available in such limited quantities that they won’t be much help to anyone.

11Wells Rye: This is a small craft distiller here in the Twin Cities. I tasted this at a local retailer along with a group of friends after an event. I also tasted it again at Whiskey on Ice, a local whiskey festival. It’s…not good. Hopefully after some time it will get better but I’ll need to be convinced of that when it happens.

Fleischmann’s Straight Rye: Only available as a plastic handle in Kentucky and Northern Wisconsin, this is not a whiskey to seek out. In fact, it’s not available even in those two places as a “straight” whiskey anymore, that part of the label having been changed. When I bought it, it was less than $12 for a 1.75 L bottle and it was over priced. 

Woodford Reserve Master’s Collection Sonoma-Cutrer Pinot Noir Finish: This is bad. If the Double Malt is the worst thing that Woodford ever put their name on, this is the second worst. I’ve had people tell me I’m crazy, but I found this to be terrible.

Yellow Rose Bourbon: I had this at a tasting event that was held at a local chain a couple years ago. My notes at the time mentioned musty, wet corn flakes. And unfortunately, the $70 price tag on a bottle won’t let me give them another chance. There is very little chance you’ll be seeing this on the site as a full-blown review.

So there you have it. Your list will probably be very different. We all taste things differently and we all like different things, but for me these are the worst American whiskies I’ve ever had. What about you though? What’s the worst you’ve had? Let me know in the comments.

UPDATE: So, after fourteen hundred and some odd days after I first made my opinion known on Rebel Yell, I finally got around to trying it again. Here are my updated thoughts: Rebel Yell: Revisited.

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Whiskey: An American Pictorial History by Oscar Getz

A while back, I wrote a post about the Oscar Getz Museum of Whiskey History in Bardstown, KY. In doing research for that post, I stumbled upon the information that Mr. Getz, aside from being an avid collector of whiskey historical memorabilia, also wrote a book on whiskey history as well. 

Having stumbled upon that information just as the the monthly patron donations hit, I immediately decided to use that month’s proceeds to purchase the book should I be able to find it. It turns out that it I didn’t have to look too hard. Though the book is long out of print, there are plenty of used copies for sale on the Amazon Marketplace. And so, not knowing exactly what I would get, I placed the order and waited.

Whiskey: An American Pictorial History

by Oscar Getz

Based upon the title, I expected this book to be made up almost entirely of pictures. I expected that most of those pictures would be from Mr. Getz’s collection, the seed of the Oscar Getz Museum of Whiskey History in Bardstown, KY. I half expected that most of the images would be of things I remembered seeing from the museum.

I was both right and wrong. There are images of items that I’ve seen in the museum and many of the images are of items from Mr. Getz’s collection. But contrary to my expectations this book is not as image heavy as the title would lead you to believe. Now don’t get me wrong, there are a lot of images, but many, if not most, of them are images of documents. Within it’s pages are an amazing collection of letters, laws, newspaper pages, liquor licenses and advertisements from Colonial times through the mid-1970s. 

Like other books on American whiskey history, this one starts with the pilgrims, retelling legends that in many of us learned in elementary school. It talks about the intertwined nature of taverns, liquor and the early United States. It touches on George Washington, Hamilton, the Whiskey Rebellion, the Civil War before ending it’s narrative with Prohibition. 

But though it hits all the same notes as many other books, I found this book to be interesting for the parts it includes that many others don’t. There is a chapter on Abraham Lincoln and his tavern. There is a chapter on mail-order whiskey marketing. And the book ends with a chapter on a subject that reads as a personal one for Mr. Getz, the economic and social contributions of the liquor industry. 

This final chapter details a history of charitable contributions, the many ways that states used their liquor tax revenue in the 1970s and a plea that the distilling industry devote itself to helping end teenage consumption as well as drinking and driving. Though this chapter was not written as a history, almost forty years on, it provides some interesting insights. 

Overall if you happen to see this book somewhere, I’d recommend picking it up. Though the text can be dry and hard to read at times, the information and documents contained in it’s pages are worth the effort.

BourbonGuy.com accepts no advertising. It is solely supported by the sale of the hand-made products I sell at the BourbonGuy Gifts Etsy store. If you'd like to support BourbonGuy.com, visit BourbonGuyGifts.com. Thanks!